[NEW] UElder down ❄️ – Forum – Path of Exile | high templar – Vietnamnhanvan

UPDATE 3.15 Updated the POB for 3.15

Videos

Spoiler

ZOOMING Through A7 Sirus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkbP99rw3Z0
ZOOMING Through Minotaur https://youtu.be/7SWqS3tzCSQ
https://youtu.be/Io5lZ_OB2l0 Phoenix T16
https://youtu.be/0FVK7rhNu3A Minotaur T16
https://youtu.be/kdlPHlqC4BE 3 sec Crusader kill
https://youtu.be/DGM6Y3b9n4k Hunter Guardian A7
https://youtu.be/90suu3-XjhI Shaper absolutely annihilated
https://youtu.be/hwlYPbJXFmI Elder with HH AGAIN
https://youtu.be/yqnYe18spKk Pit of the Chimera T16

These vids are with somewhat budget/old gear keep that in mind, build is much stronger since these vids were uploaded
Twitch stream: https://www.twitch.tv/adonpoe
Changelog

Spoiler

Added two new vids, t16 phoenix and minotaur. 10/9/2020
Updated Jewels section and POB 10/6/2020

Pros and cons

+ Insane clear
+ Good single target damage with investments
+ Turbo fast movement speed
+ Cheap to start
+ Can do Phys reflect since we are converting 100% with ice shot

± Neutral
-I would avoid “Enemies have 70% to avoid Elemental Ailments, it halves our damage and herald of ice doesnt work.
-Cant use Barrage for single target on PHYS reflect maps.

– Expensive to gear up and min-max
– A bit squishy if not fully geared
– Cannot do elemental reflect maps
– No leech maps

Mechanics

Spoiler

-Try to never have “Arrow’s pierce enemies” as an implicit on your quiver, its really bad, it ruins our chains and our AOE.

-Barrage starts with 5 arrows and scales very good when you reach around 9-10, meaning 300k-400k DPS (give or take) with a single arrow, so multiply this number with the amount of arrows you have, thats your damage.

-Frost Bomb is kinda obvious, we only need it for the -25 cold exposure

-Snipers mark very good for sustaining long boss fights (fills up your life flask per hit)and it also gives a HUGE dps boost and AOE

-If u have Ele Weakness on ur gloves and you want to use snipers mark also, you can allocate Whispers of Doom so you can you both.

(Change Barrage quality to Divergent)
Path of Building

Spoiler

Only works with POB Community Fork
https://pastebin.com/PZyX9E8E

Bandits

Spoiler

Help Alira at the start, you can later spec into +2 with clusters etc.

Pantheon

Spoiler

-Lunaris for Major, it gives movement speed, phys reduction and +5% chance to dodge attacks/spells
-Garukhan for minor,gives us +5 chance to evade attacks and movement speed

Ascendancy

Spoiler

1.Ricochet.
2.Enless Munitions.
3.Gathering Winds.
4.Wind Ward

Gear

Spoiler

Note that some of this gear might not be used on POB, you can obviously still use them but i always test stuff.

Currently using multimod bow, super late game bow, i dont suggest you try to craft it yet, it can get really expensive.

Both Death’s Opus and Chin Sol,are really good on their own way, Death’s Opus give’s us +2 arrows and more crit multi, while chin sol gives us more flat/overall dps,so id say get chin sol if you have dying sun.

Griped gloves with life-resist, try to get Increased damage against chilled enemies, kinda expensive to find with good life roll and resistances.

Also Hands of the high templar rly good choice, huge dps with +1 frenzy and curse enemies with eleweakness.

Always go for stygian vise with ele dmg, good life roll and resistances, HH is just a little extra to get to 900k movement speed

Rare helmet with +1 Barrage Arrow, really important for extra dps,if u have the currency try to craft -9 cold res.
You also need INT (MUST), good life roll and resistances, always craft it your self.

Fractal thoughts is also a really good choice and huge DPS boost. (NOTE that you’d probably need INT from somewhere else)

For armor im using Farrul’s Fur, probably the best armor in the game, if not, one of the best for sure, free aspect of the cat, and instant max frenzy/power charges.

But Since its really expensive you can always go for Hyrri’s Ire

For rings you should run Mark of the elder with a good DPS shaper influenced rare ring, any sort of dps helps, try to get a good implicit ( two-stone )

Tamings are really bad imo, you should never run them, besides the fact that they give 0 hp what so ever, mark of the elder and a good DPS rare ring outdamages double taming

Im using voidfletcher since it gives very good single target dmg cause of the void shots, the other stats are nice to. Try to get Phys converted to cold implicit, if its expensive just try to get anything else besides pierce.

For a more budget option on quiver you could go Hyrris Denise or Hyrris Bite even.

A rare quiver with +1 isnt bad for league starting, but no matter the mods its not gonna out dps the voidfletcher.

Try to get attack speed enhance boots and ELUSIVE for defense layer and extra MS, and then craft the rest of the mods your self, good life roll and some resistances shouldn’t be TOO hard to craft.You also need to craft Onslaught With movement speed, huge dps boost, (by 300k according to pob).
Tier 3 craft isnt mandatory but the 20 MS improves quality of life

Good DPS Amulet with dmg per frenzy, resistances arent really needed here, just try to get as much dps as possible

Notice that a rare amulet like this one costs a lot

The Pandemonius is a very good choice also, provides cold pen,blind and cold dmg, way more dps than a rare amulet.

Jewels

Spoiler

You want to get Lioneyes ASAP, its probably the most important piece of equipment for this build.

A flat cold damage watcher’s eye is also really nice,it gives us a lot of dps and its rly not that expensive (2-3 ex give or take).

Get thread of hope MEDIUM ring to allocate Disciple of the Slaughter and Disciple of the Unyielding, gives us about 1.5m dps and some defense layer

Cluster jewel with Cold Conduction and Stormrider, gives us about 2mil dps, since we are shocking with cold dmg, super strong cluster jewel.

You want to get Lioneyes ASAP, its probably the most important piece of equipment for this build.A flat cold damage watcher’s eye is also really nice,it gives us a lot of dps and its rly not that expensive (2-3 ex give or take).Get thread of hope MEDIUM ring to allocate Disciple of the Slaughter and Disciple of the Unyielding, gives us about 1.5m dps and some defense layerCluster jewel with Cold Conduction and Stormrider, gives us about 2mil dps, since we are shocking with cold dmg, super strong cluster jewel.

Flasks
The ones that im currently using are

Dying sun is a MUST, cinderswallow not rly, if you dont have the currency for it or dying sun, just get a normal onslaught flask and quartz flask.Get normal diamond flask instead of bottled faith,it should be the last item u buy.
You can replace quicksilver for atziris for more dps.

Note that some of this gear might not be used on POB, you can obviously still use them but i always test stuff.Currently using multimod bow, super late game bow, i dont suggest you try to craft it yet, it can get really expensive.Both Death’s Opus and Chin Sol,are really good on their own way, Death’s Opus give’s us +2 arrows and more crit multi, while chin sol gives us more flat/overall dps,so id say get chin sol if you have dying sun.Griped gloves with life-resist, try to get Increased damage against chilled enemies, kinda expensive to find with good life roll and resistances.Also Hands of the high templar rly good choice, huge dps with +1 frenzy and curse enemies with eleweakness.Always go for stygian vise with ele dmg, good life roll and resistances, HH is just a little extra to get to 900k movement speedRare helmet with +1 Barrage Arrow, really important for extra dps,if u have the currency try to craft -9 cold res.You also need INT (MUST), good life roll and resistances, always craft it your self.Fractal thoughts is also a really good choice and huge DPS boost. (NOTE that you’d probably need INT from somewhere else)For armor im using Farrul’s Fur, probably the best armor in the game, if not, one of the best for sure, free aspect of the cat, and instant max frenzy/power charges.But Since its really expensive you can always go for Hyrri’s IreFor rings you should run Mark of the elder with a good DPS shaper influenced rare ring, any sort of dps helps, try to get a good implicit ( two-stone )Tamings are really bad imo, you should never run them, besides the fact that they give 0 hp what so ever, mark of the elder and a good DPS rare ring outdamages double tamingIm using voidfletcher since it gives very good single target dmg cause of the void shots, the other stats are nice to. Try to get Phys converted to cold implicit, if its expensive just try to get anything else besides pierce.For a more budget option on quiver you could go Hyrris Denise or Hyrris Bite even.A rare quiver with +1 isnt bad for league starting, but no matter the mods its not gonna out dps the voidfletcher.Try to get attack speed enhance boots and ELUSIVE for defense layer and extra MS, and then craft the rest of the mods your self, good life roll and some resistances shouldn’t be TOO hard to craft.You also need to craft Onslaught With movement speed, huge dps boost, (by 300k according to pob).Tier 3 craft isnt mandatory but the 20 MS improves quality of lifeGood DPS Amulet with dmg per frenzy, resistances arent really needed here, just try to get as much dps as possibleNotice that a rare amulet like this one costs a lotThe Pandemonius is a very good choice also, provides cold pen,blind and cold dmg, way more dps than a rare amulet.The ones that im currently using areDying sun is a MUST, cinderswallow not rly, if you dont have the currency for it or dying sun, just get a normal onslaught flask and quartz flask.Get normal diamond flask instead of bottled faith,it should be the last item u buy.You can replace quicksilver for atziris for more dps.

Annoint

Spoiler

No witnesses,Throatseeker or Heart of Ice
Heart of Ice provides a bit more DPS than throatseeker.
Im currently using Whispers of Doom since i got 2 Curses

Leveling

Spoiler

Act 1: Try to get the following gems, will rly help with clearing

Ice Shot-Added Cold-LMP-Onslaught-Mirage archer

–

Ice shot

–

Added Cold Damage Support

–

Shrapnel Ballista

–

Lesser Multiple Projectiles Support

–

Onslaught Support

–

Mirage Archer

–

Smoke Mine

–

Precision

–

Barrage

Act 2: You want to get

Increased ele dmg with attacks

and

Herald of ice

, huge dps boost.
Act 3:
–

Hatred

Act 4:
–

Summon Ice Golem

and

GMP

Act 6:
–

Inspiration Support

While leveling your links should look like these

Ice shot

–

LMP

(Swap to

GMP

at lvl 38) –

onslaught

–

Ice Bite

(For single target)

Barrage

–

Elemental damage with attacks

–

added cold – hypothermia/ cold pen

(Misc,not needed but it helps)

Shrapnel Ballista – LMP – Culling strike – faster attacks

Gem links

Spoiler

-Clear

Ice Shot

–

Damage on full life

–

Added cold damage

–

Elemental damage with attacks

–

Chain support-Hypothermia

*NOTE* Youre probably gonna need to have around 20-15+ strength somewhere for your dmg on full life support to reach lvl 20

-Single target

Barrage

–

Inspiration-

Added cold damage

–

Elemental damage with attacks

–

Cold Penetration-

Damage on Full Life

4L Movement

Second Wind-Dash

–

Frost bomb

–

Sniper’s mark

(Swap Sniper’s Mark with Vaal Grace if you have Curse enemies with Ele Weakness.

2-2L CWDT

CWTD-Immortal Call (Level 1)-Increased Duration

Summon Ice golem

4L Auras

Enlighten lvl 3

–

Hatred- Herald of Ice-Divergent Precision

( you can use normal precision i just like the +10% increased dmg)

League Start

Spoiler

Try to get 5L Death’s Opu’s and a Hyrri’s Ire and try 5linking it your self, it shouldnt take more than 40-50 fusings. For the rest of the items just get good life roll and resistances rings, some crit multi on amulet and Fractal thoughts for helmet, which is relatively cheap (1c).These should be enough to get you going.

Leveling Gear

Spoiler

FAQS

Spoiler

Too expensive-
If you have a problem with buying items cause of currency let me know in the comments so i can help you.

Updated the POB for 3.15These vids are with somewhat budget/old gear keep that in mind, build is much stronger since these vids were uploadedhttps://www.twitch.tv/adonpoePros and cons(Change Barrage quality to Divergent)

Last edited by AdonFPS on Aug 25, 2021, 10:23:08 PM

Last bumped on Nov 30, 2021, 1:37:26 AM

Posted by
AdonFPS
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Thx for the guide! seems really solid.
However I’m wondering if you can play the build as a league atarter?
since I have literally no currency and considering rerolling.
Also what item should I aim for first in the beginning?

Last edited by Zeriob on Sep 29, 2020, 10:31:32 PM

Posted by
Zeriob
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“

Zeriob

However I’m wondering if you can play the build as a league atarter?
since I have literally no currency and considering rerolling.
Also what item should I aim for first in the beginning?

Thx for the guide! seems really solid.However I’m wondering if you can play the build as a league atarter?since I have literally no currency and considering rerolling.Also what item should I aim for first in the beginning?

Yep you can easily league start with this build, i did also, Deaths opus is relatively cheap even as 6L, and get a 5L Hyrri’s Ire after, the rest of the items are about ~10c give or take

Yep you can easily league start with this build, i did also, Deaths opus is relatively cheap even as 6L, and get a 5L Hyrri’s Ire after, the rest of the items are about ~10c give or take

Posted by
AdonFPS
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_https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/031/021/cover2.jpg

why this guide is meme, in depth explanation.

=====
gear.
======

1. bow – death opus is not really best option. its good only because it gives +2, which helps early on. if u add chin sol to PoB, tick on range=1 + close range, it will outdps death opus by a lot. im not even talking rare crafted one.

2. gloves – usually u resists there, but there is a lot of options instead. for resists – gripped ones. offensive ones – hands of high templar with +1 frenzy and flat crit. this will give 10% hp, double resists. shadow and dust gloves if u want rampage and some early crit a bit. crafted gloves with +1frenzy.

3. helm. u should never use it as resist filler slot. if u go rare one – -9 cold is a must there. if u dont want a rare, pick starkonja/devoto/fractal thoughts/rats nest. depends from what u need, surviving/movespeed/flat damage/4%crit.

4. wildwrap serves fine a leveling one. 5l hyrri too, kaom heart works good for bosskilling setups.

5. rings is meme, doing something like this is basically cutting a dps. 2x taming will be much better, fill ur resists and give u much more damage then “30% ele attack with skills” on rare rings. need hp? elder mark + shaper influence ring. need even more dps? 2x ciycle ring with herald of ice mods.

6. quiver is meme too, voidfletch is cool and so on but, u must corrupt it, as pierce implicit will kill your build totally. (u didnt said that in guide lmao) demise works fine, providing u some good flat damage based on how much stats u have, scaled amazingly with fractal thoughts. another option is crafted quiver with +1arrow, which again is not on the table.

7. boots, hp resits filler slot, but can also serve you as source of permanent phasing, even without farrul. as well as give u +1chain. guess what those boots is?

8. using rare amulet like this is meme too, u actually would better to pick hyrri amulet, which will give u some more freedom at using precision as well as giving some dps. if u want rare amulet, then u totally dont need accurace and rare item found there, most likely some flat damage to cold attacks and % cold damage would be better, but even this is not optimal, because redeemer infuence is best at it with damage per frenzy charge. also pandemonius is still exists.

9. iceshot build usually relies on having 100% or being close to 100% crit chance. ur build will not push it even to 90.

10. nothing about jewels, nothing about watcher eye, nothing about timeless jewel (there is a lot of options to pick), nothing about cluster and how to gain power charges easily. nothing about how much dps give abyss jewels with flat dmg. also, where is words about lioneye? 😀

11. nothing about bottled faith/atizi promise/abusing overcapped cold resist for wise oak extra penetration.

=====
anoint
=====

elusive is cool and so on but there is also options such as heart of ice (actually if in pob throatseeker is top damage node, that means ur crit multi is bad)

=====
links
=====

ice bite performs better with 6+ frenzy charges than added cold damage, which is fairly easy to gain.

a fact that u use inspiration support in ice shot, makes this build a total joke. u dont need inspiration in ice shot, u need it in barrage for rise ur crit there, and make inspi charges. it has no purpose in iceshot link which already kills packs with a single click.

u also not using dmg on full life support, which is actually biggest dps for build, as long as u have a source of hp leeching. (did i told u about increased dmg while leeching tree nodes and crafts into amulet? 😀 no?)

u can drop cold pene at all if u have pandemonius.

u have no vaal grace – gl killing metamorph on t16.

u also dont have vaal haste, if u go for dps that much.

sorry, but if someone will follow that build, it will most likely do yellow maps only, pushing it further for someone who not experienced with bow builds, will be impossible.

its okay (more or less) that u dont know all gear options, as build is flexible. but non of any mechanic has been explained (lioneye/clusters/watcher/leech/why crit must be capped). and gemlinks is actually a biggest mistake.

Last edited by xqhrn on Sep 29, 2020, 10:41:33 PM

Posted by
xqhrn
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on

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“

xqhrn

why this guide is meme, in depth explanation.

=====
gear.
======

1. bow – death opus is not really best option. its good only because it gives +2, which helps early on. if u add chin sol to PoB, tick on range=1 + close range, it will outdps death opus by a lot. im not even talking rare crafted one.

2. gloves – usually u resists there, but there is a lot of options instead. for resists – gripped ones. offensive ones – hands of high templar with +1 frenzy and flat crit. this will give 10% hp, double resists. shadow and dust gloves if u want rampage and some early crit a bit. crafted gloves with +1frenzy.

3. helm. u should never use it as resist filler slot. if u go rare one – -9 cold is a must there. if u dont want a rare, pick starkonja/devoto/fractal thoughts/rats nest. depends from what u need, surviving/movespeed/flat damage/4%crit.

4. wildwrap serves fine a leveling one. 5l hyrri too, kaom heart works good for bosskilling setups.

5. rings is meme, doing something like this is basically cutting a dps. 2x taming will be much better, fill ur resists and give u much more damage then “30% ele attack with skills” on rare rings. need hp? elder mark + shaper influence ring. need even more dps? 2x ciycle ring with herald of ice mods.

6. quiver is meme too, voidfletch is cool and so on but, u must corrupt it, as pierce implicit will kill your build totally. (u didnt said that in guide lmao) demise works fine, providing u some good flat damage based on how much stats u have, scaled amazingly with fractal thoughts. another option is crafted quiver with +1arrow, which again is not on the table.

7. boots, hp resits filler slot, but can also serve you as source of permanent phasing, even without farrul. as well as give u +1chain. guess what those boots is?

8. using rare amulet like this is meme too, u actually would better to pick hyrri amulet, which will give u some more freedom at using precision as well as giving some dps. if u want rare amulet, then u totally dont need accurace and rare item found there, most likely some flat damage to cold attacks and % cold damage would be better, but even this is not optimal, because redeemer infuence is best at it with damage per frenzy charge. also pandemonius is still exists.

9. iceshot build usually relies on having 100% or being close to 100% crit chance. ur build will not push it even to 90.

10. nothing about jewels, nothing about watcher eye, nothing about timeless jewel (there is a lot of options to pick), nothing about cluster and how to gain power charges easily. nothing about how much dps give abyss jewels with flat dmg. also, where is words about lioneye? 😀

11. nothing about bottled faith/atizi promise/abusing overcapped cold resist for wise oak extra penetration.

=====
anoint
=====

elusive is cool and so on but there is also options such as heart of ice (actually if in pob throatseeker is top damage node, that means ur crit multi is bad)

=====
links
=====

ice bite performs better with 6+ frenzy charges than added cold damage, which is fairly easy to gain.

a fact that u use inspiration support in ice shot, makes this build a total joke. u dont need inspiration in ice shot, u need it in barrage for rise ur crit there, and make inspi charges. it has no purpose in iceshot link which already kills packs with a single click.

u also not using dmg on full life support, which is actually biggest dps for build, as long as u have a source of hp leeching. (did i told u about increased dmg while leeching tree nodes and crafts into amulet? 😀 no?)

u can drop cold pene at all if u have pandemonius.

u have no vaal grace – gl killing metamorph on t16.

u also dont have vaal haste, if u go for dps that much.

sorry, but if someone will follow that build, it will most likely do yellow maps only, pushing it further for someone who not experienced with bow builds, will be impossible.

its okay (more or less) that u dont know all gear options, as build is flexible. but non of any mechanic has been explained (lioneye/clusters/watcher/leech/why crit must be capped). and gemlinks is actually a biggest mistake.

_https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/031/021/cover2.jpgwhy this guide is meme, in depth explanation.=====gear.======1. bow – death opus is not really best option. its good only because it gives +2, which helps early on. if u add chin sol to PoB, tick on range=1 + close range, it will outdps death opus by a lot. im not even talking rare crafted one.2. gloves – usually u resists there, but there is a lot of options instead. for resists – gripped ones. offensive ones – hands of high templar with +1 frenzy and flat crit. this will give 10% hp, double resists. shadow and dust gloves if u want rampage and some early crit a bit. crafted gloves with +1frenzy.3. helm. u should never use it as resist filler slot. if u go rare one – -9 cold is a must there. if u dont want a rare, pick starkonja/devoto/fractal thoughts/rats nest. depends from what u need, surviving/movespeed/flat damage/4%crit.4. wildwrap serves fine a leveling one. 5l hyrri too, kaom heart works good for bosskilling setups.5. rings is meme, doing something like this is basically cutting a dps. 2x taming will be much better, fill ur resists and give u much more damage then “30% ele attack with skills” on rare rings. need hp? elder mark + shaper influence ring. need even more dps? 2x ciycle ring with herald of ice mods.6. quiver is meme too, voidfletch is cool and so on but, u must corrupt it, as pierce implicit will kill your build totally. (u didnt said that in guide lmao) demise works fine, providing u some good flat damage based on how much stats u have, scaled amazingly with fractal thoughts. another option is crafted quiver with +1arrow, which again is not on the table.7. boots, hp resits filler slot, but can also serve you as source of permanent phasing, even without farrul. as well as give u +1chain. guess what those boots is?8. using rare amulet like this is meme too, u actually would better to pick hyrri amulet, which will give u some more freedom at using precision as well as giving some dps. if u want rare amulet, then u totally dont need accurace and rare item found there, most likely some flat damage to cold attacks and % cold damage would be better, but even this is not optimal, because redeemer infuence is best at it with damage per frenzy charge. also pandemonius is still exists.9. iceshot build usually relies on having 100% or being close to 100% crit chance. ur build will not push it even to 90.10. nothing about jewels, nothing about watcher eye, nothing about timeless jewel (there is a lot of options to pick), nothing about cluster and how to gain power charges easily. nothing about how much dps give abyss jewels with flat dmg. also, where is words about lioneye? :D11. nothing about bottled faith/atizi promise/abusing overcapped cold resist for wise oak extra penetration.=====anoint=====elusive is cool and so on but there is also options such as heart of ice (actually if in pob throatseeker is top damage node, that means ur crit multi is bad)=====links=====ice bite performs better with 6+ frenzy charges than added cold damage, which is fairly easy to gain.a fact that u use inspiration support in ice shot, makes this build a total joke. u dont need inspiration in ice shot, u need it in barrage for rise ur crit there, and make inspi charges. it has no purpose in iceshot link which already kills packs with a single click.u also not using dmg on full life support, which is actually biggest dps for build, as long as u have a source of hp leeching. (did i told u about increased dmg while leeching tree nodes and crafts into amulet? 😀 no?)u can drop cold pene at all if u have pandemonius.u have no vaal grace – gl killing metamorph on t16.u also dont have vaal haste, if u go for dps that much.sorry, but if someone will follow that build, it will most likely do yellow maps only, pushing it further for someone who not experienced with bow builds, will be impossible.its okay (more or less) that u dont know all gear options, as build is flexible. but non of any mechanic has been explained (lioneye/clusters/watcher/leech/why crit must be capped). and gemlinks is actually a biggest mistake.

While all the options you said are valid, if i did changed rings/gloves etc i would be at 3.2k hp probably and get one shotted by every little projectile that comes in my way.It also takes days to explain what every single item does in the game and alternatives, im posting my current build with some more budget versions if its too expensive. I do have a section linking the jewels im using, watchers-lioneyes and a crit multi eye jewel.Also i did say about pierce implcit on the quiver, but i think youre too mad to see it?

While all the options you said are valid, if i did changed rings/gloves etc i would be at 3.2k hp probably and get one shotted by every little projectile that comes in my way.It also takes days to explain what every single item does in the game and alternatives, im posting my current build with some more budget versions if its too expensive. I do have a section linking the jewels im using, watchers-lioneyes and a crit multi eye jewel.Also i did say about pierce implcit on the quiver, but i think youre too mad to see it?

Last edited by AdonFPS on Sep 29, 2020, 10:49:43 PM

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mark of elder – 10%HP, price is about 15c~. shaper ring 1c, if u want 85lvl base – 5c. just pick any that fills ur resists and has t1 hp roll.

elder mark already gives u 80% dmg, which is much more than ele attack with skills at 33% (add to that 80% a value of ele attacks with skills u can get in shaper rare ring too)

gloves of sirus is kind of expensive but, if u dont have problems with resists, such corrupt can carry to very late endgame coupled with ice bite gem or proper farrul.

pushing it to 4k hp is not rly hard. most likely ull be struggle to make it to 5k hp.

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xqhrn
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Yes i know what the other alternatives are you dont have to tell me, i made the guide really quick and didnt have time to talk about all the alts, and my build differs from what ure suggesting since i dont want 3500~ hp.

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AdonFPS
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Thanks for the build! Do you have a recommendation for which direction to take first on the passive tree when leveling?

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Goat_Exile
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Goat_Exile

Thanks for the build! Do you have a recommendation for which direction to take first on the passive tree when leveling?

Thank you! ye i do, you can rush to winter spirit, take herbalism and get master fletcher, make your way down to primeval force, lethality and fangs of frost, after that you can start taking king of the hill

Thank you! ye i do, you can rush to winter spirit, take herbalism and get master fletcher, make your way down to primeval force, lethality and fangs of frost, after that you can start taking king of the hill

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LuCiD37

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150 Posts

#1

I have been doing A LOT of practice as Zerg against Protoss. I have been fairing well in finding adequate counters to most Protoss builds that do not include high templar. Normally I am fine up until about the time where I am saturating my third base (this is assuming that I have been unable to secure enough of an advantage to push for a win by this point). By this time my opponent is able to include High Templar into a solid, diverse army mix. Storms are too much vs my roach/hydra build. But I don’t know what else to do… Moving out of the way seems obvious, but it rarely saves me any unit hp- is there a good counter to an army with a decent amount of high templar? Is it just good micro?

Thanks for the help

N(o)sarcasm

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Joined July 2010

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#2

I hope the following can help in your dilemma a bit:

What I find to usually be one of the best counters to high templar are the infestor. Not for the obvious reasons though, for the not so used ability of infested terran. I know this seems sort of “Eh? What the hell is this guy saying?” But let me explain a bit. Most of the time, high templars are kept in the back of the group, this allows for you to use an infestor to get a bit of a jump on them. Not only because they move exceedingly fast while burrowed, but because high templars move incredibly slow whether on or off creep. This, although sometimes better utilized on colossus and immortal, can prove to be a great help. The infested terran do enough focus damage in groups of 4, that is, four infested terrans, to beat a high templar with a 1.5 shot volley.

Now, what does this do for you? Well, it lets your Infestor stay burrowed, and likely get away whilst the opponent is dealing with this newfound tactic. It lets your army get into a better concave, or at least it should. Also, I wouldn’t expect the critical mass of colossus being reached if they’re expending any sort of tech on the high templar, as well as its extremely gas heavy cost. The high templars at this point have limited options. One is to run, and risk getting slaughtered a bit more. Two is to use their storms on the infested terran. While I sincerely doubt it would be the latter, if they chose to do so, then it’ll give you ample time to move in and kill off that army without the templars bothering you so much.

I hope this helps you out at least in part. It’s done a bit for me in these types of match ups.

Ryuu314

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Joined October 2009

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7379 Posts

Last Edited: 2010-07-13 04:23:53

#3

Roach.

Those buggers can easily tank storms, especially with the inceased HP regen upgrade. Let your roaches soak up the storm damage and burrow them. Then laugh as the storm does nothing. If you scout the Protoss going templar tech, make your composition a little more roach heavy as opposed to hydra heavy.

Honestly, because of roaches and their retardedly high HP, I tend to not go templar tech in PvZ.

obsid

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Joined November 2008

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Last Edited: 2010-07-13 04:43:52

#4

Not sure if its a bug or not, but assuming its not (and I think the game is more balanced and fun with it not a bug). The guy going for high temps, probably isnt going to have observers out (and that requires a totaly diffrent tech tree). Oh and if he does have an obs, 9 range of nerual parasite is quite long, he probably wont even see you still after you neural and then storm his own guys.

properly done burrowed nerual parasite on the high templar will let you storm his guysNot sure if its a bug or not, but assuming its not (and I think the game is more balanced and fun with it not a bug). The guy going for high temps, probably isnt going to have observers out (and that requires a totaly diffrent tech tree). Oh and if he does have an obs, 9 range of nerual parasite is quite long, he probably wont even see you still after you neural and then storm his own guys.

Buffy

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#5

Had troubles with this myself lately, but got a tip to go mutas instead of to many ground units, haven’t had a moment to try yet : /

Like the idea with infestor ! The roach one has just failed for me so far : / Stalkers and and forcefil just laughs and when I burrow mr.observer just points on them and laugh : /

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LuCiD37

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Joined July 2010

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150 Posts

#6

So a combination of roach/infestor/burrow seems to be the remedy. That definitely makes sense- especially the fact that those units can move while burrowed- I think really can make this a viable tactic vs massed HTs.

Thanks for the help so far, if anyone else has any other ideas I would love to hear them.

In the meantime, going to try this out!

Alzadar

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#7

Have you considered ultralisks? Storms are basically useless against them, force fields don’t do anything and once you get a bunch they beat zealots because of their AoE damage. You need to watch out for Stalkers but if you support your ultras with hydras (or maybe lings if you’re short on gas) this should work pretty well. If they did a mostly Warpgate-based build they won’t be able to get enough Immortals fast enough. Voids Rays might be a concern so again, get hydralisk support.

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Plexa

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Last Edited: 2010-07-13 05:28:53

#8

Really though, should post a replay

I don’t think a “counter” exists. And that’s the way it should be… It comes down to control and whatnot. Storms are not as lethal as they used to be, so you shouldn’t have a hard time just pulling back and letting his zealots eat the brunt of the storm.Really though, should post a replay

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imPERSONater

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Joined April 2010

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#9

It’s frustrating that the counter seems to be just surprise them before they can use their units.

I like the roach burrow move since I generally get roaches to deal with 2 gates and such. Also I tend to avoid mutas because that is just another unit needing gas and it tends to deplete roach counts drastically.

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BlasiuS

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Joined September 2007

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#10

in the mid-game, upgraded tunneling speedroaches are probably the best unit to use. They can withstand almost 2 full storms, and can quickly move out of storms, and burrow to regen.

Lategame, ultras all the way.

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Buffy

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Joined May 2010

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#11

those slow bastards are not so tight with the rest of the units so sniping them should not be to hard for anyone

New strat ! Snipe those with mutas was working really fine ! just won a game by doing it !those slow bastards are not so tight with the rest of the units so sniping them should not be to hard for anyone

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Kratisto

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Joined June 2008

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#12

Protoss player hero. Roaches don’t go down quickly to storm like Hydras do. Mutas are quick enough to micro away, and your opponent will have less money sunk into Stalkers and Sentries if he doesn’t see it coming, so you might be able to do some sniping. Mobility is key in minimizing damage taken from Storm, so spreading creep would probably be (especially) beneficial.

High Templar are “Light”. A well-placed baneling can melt a thousand gas worth of poorly-placed templar. It might be worth experimenting with baneling bombing and baneling traps for situations where you’re not incredibly lucky or your opponent hilariously incompetent. Banelings aren’t great against Zealots, but at least they’ll be doing full damage.

caldo149

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#13

On July 13 2010 14:50 Buffy wrote:
New strat ! Snipe those with mutas was working really fine ! just won a game by doing it ! those slow bastards are not so tight with the rest of the units so sniping them should not be to hard for anyone

New strat ! Snipe those with mutas was working really fine ! just won a game by doing it !those slow bastards are not so tight with the rest of the units so sniping them should not be to hard for anyone

That’s not new, it’s a tactic used a lot in Broodwar ZvP, often seen with in the 3 hatch spire -> 5 hatch hydra build. It’s a great idea in BW and SC2, although i can’t imagine it being as effective without BW Muta control.

That’s not new, it’s a tactic used a lot in Broodwar ZvP, often seen with in the 3 hatch spire -> 5 hatch hydra build. It’s a great idea in BW and SC2, although i can’t imagine it being as effective without BW Muta control.

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Jacobs Ladder

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Joined May 2010

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#14

Roach Ling is decent. Roaches don’t get clobbered by storms and storming lings is a good way to kill your own units.

N(o)sarcasm

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#15

On July 13 2010 15:09 Kratisto wrote:
Protoss player hero. Roaches don’t go down quickly to storm like Hydras do. Mutas are quick enough to micro away, and your opponent will have less money sunk into Stalkers and Sentries if he doesn’t see it coming, so you might be able to do some sniping. Mobility is key in minimizing damage taken from Storm, so spreading creep would probably be (especially) beneficial.

High Templar are “Light”. A well-placed baneling can melt a thousand gas worth of poorly-placed templar. It might be worth experimenting with baneling bombing and baneling traps for situations where you’re not incredibly lucky or your opponent hilariously incompetent. Banelings aren’t great against Zealots, but at least they’ll be doing full damage.

Not great in one versus one, I agree. Though how often do you see a zerg going one baneling versus one zealot? Pending that great program which lets you do tests, I’d say next to zero. Banelings, en masse, can destroy nearly all ground forces in one fell swoop. The only preventive tactics I know of is force field or mass siege. I am a player of all races, and have been on the giving and receiving end of a group of 30 or so baneling literally rolling in and decimating all but the strongest of units. In most cases, this leaves the immortal, colossus, thor, and ultra, as well as any air units for obvious reasons standing. As a zerg player, if you already have your main force built. That is, you have your muta, hydra, or roach accompanied by any of the viable choices, it’s quite easy to macro up more zergling at your disposal, which will reach the destination of your choice in seconds, pending their speed upgrade. This can, and often times will end the game. In the case of you having the units necessary to deal with it. Often times this can leave a zerg fairly beat morally. That is, they -wanted- and -expected- the baneling ball to destroy most of your stuff, and although their army may be enough to defeat said army, they feel sort of helpless against the onslaught. Sometimes this can lead to less micro, as I’ve witnessed.

Aside from the one versus one, this quoted poster makes several valid and great points. Roaches are great to soak up storms, just be careful not to rely on them too much, as colossus and stalker can potentially destroy swarm after swarm of them. =D In what you’re trying to deal with though, if you find the infestor tactic to be too gas heavy, then this is a viable option as well. It’s really just about what you have at your disposal with x amount of minerals and x amount of gas.

Not great in one versus one, I agree. Though how often do you see a zerg going one baneling versus one zealot? Pending that great program which lets you do tests, I’d say next to zero. Banelings, en masse, can destroy nearly all ground forces in one fell swoop. The only preventive tactics I know of is force field or mass siege. I am a player of all races, and have been on the giving and receiving end of a group of 30 or so baneling literally rolling in and decimating all but the strongest of units. In most cases, this leaves the immortal, colossus, thor, and ultra, as well as any air units for obvious reasons standing. As a zerg player, if you already have your main force built. That is, you have your muta, hydra, or roach accompanied by any of the viable choices, it’s quite easy to macro up more zergling at your disposal, which will reach the destination of your choice in seconds, pending their speed upgrade. This can, and often times will end the game. In the case of you having the units necessary to deal with it. Often times this can leave a zerg fairly beat morally. That is, they -wanted- and -expected- the baneling ball to destroy most of your stuff, and although their army may be enough to defeat said army, they feel sort of helpless against the onslaught. Sometimes this can lead to less micro, as I’ve witnessed.Aside from the one versus one, this quoted poster makes several valid and great points. Roaches are great to soak up storms, just be careful not to rely on them too much, as colossus and stalker can potentially destroy swarm after swarm of them. =D In what you’re trying to deal with though, if you find the infestor tactic to be too gas heavy, then this is a viable option as well. It’s really just about what you have at your disposal with x amount of minerals and x amount of gas.

Ouga

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#16

Roaches. I can understand why so few tosses go for templars instead of robo, because storms tend to do very little profitable dmg if opponent army is based on roaches. Burrowing down and jumping back up in middle of his army doesn’t hurt much either, since he doesn’t have high dmg dealers such as immos usually with this build.

-Archangel-

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Joined May 2010

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#17

Two tricks with this. 1. Do it on creep. 2. Do it somewhere where you have enough space to run in and out without sacrificing your base or anything like that.

Zerg sucks at defending and fighting at his base

My personal experience is mutas. Run in your ground troops, run in mutas and shift+click all his HT. Run back your ground troops. Try to run away with mutas that survive and then attack with all.Two tricks with this. 1. Do it on creep. 2. Do it somewhere where you have enough space to run in and out without sacrificing your base or anything like that.Zerg sucks at defending and fighting at his base

LuCiD37

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Joined July 2010

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#18

Thanks again to everyone for all of the advice.
It definitely seems like roaches are the proper (and the most likely and applicable counter- being that having a roach warren is not uncommon at this stage in the game, while and infestor pit or a spire may or may not actually be up).

“Roaches. I can understand why so few tosses go for templars instead of robo, because storms tend to do very little profitable dmg if opponent army is based on roaches. Burrowing down and jumping back up in middle of his army doesn’t hurt much either, since he doesn’t have high dmg dealers such as immos usually with this build.” – Ouga

Interestingly, in the game I played right before I made this post (and the one which brought me to make the post) I encountered a mixture of immortals and High Templar (along, of course, with a mixture of typical warpgate units). So I obviously am in a bit of a dilemma in that situation if I do go mass roaches. However, I suppose it would not be a bad idea to stick with a roach/hydra build with a generally stronger emphasis on roaches and be quicker on the burrow for both my hydras and my roaches when storms are placed. Unfortunately, I am still vulnerable to an observer in that situation.

-Archangel-

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Last Edited: 2010-07-13 09:02:49

#19

If he mixes immortals and HT then he has not enough of both. In that case have creep spread and lead him to waste storm mana and then fight him.

Storm is basically good for killing hydras, and hydras kill all but storm (well and colossi but we are not talking about those here :D).

LuCiD37

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#20

On July 13 2010 18:01 -Archangel- wrote:
If he mixes immortals and HT then he has not enough of both. In that case have creep spread and lead him to waste storm mana and then fight him.

Storm is basically good for killing hydras, and hydras kill all but storm (well and colossi but we are not talking about those here :D).

That sounds right, but what about him expanding? If I am restricted to fighting this composition on creep- I have to wait until my creep has been spread to his base. Yes, I can augment the speed of that process by using overlords and queens more effectively, but can I realistically have creep right outside his main bases where I need it in time?

I think what you are saying works if it’s on my side of the map, but becomes a bit more iffy when I am off creep.

But I guess, like you said, “If he mixes immortals and HT then he has not enough of both”, and so I am safe with roaches and lings and using those units offensively (both on and off of creep).

Another thing, are hydras altogether out of the equation vs. storm? Perhaps have them in the back and wait until the HTs are compromised?

Sorry for my questions becoming very situational

That sounds right, but what about him expanding? If I am restricted to fighting this composition on creep- I have to wait until my creep has been spread to his base. Yes, I can augment the speed of that process by using overlords and queens more effectively, but can I realistically have creep right outside his main bases where I need it in time?I think what you are saying works if it’s on my side of the map, but becomes a bit more iffy when I am off creep.But I guess, like you said, “If he mixes immortals and HT then he has not enough of both”, and so I am safe with roaches and lings and using those units offensively (both on and off of creep).Another thing, are hydras altogether out of the equation vs. storm? Perhaps have them in the back and wait until the HTs are compromised?Sorry for my questions becoming very situational

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